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Post by Golurkcanfly on Jun 10, 2016 18:28:22 GMT -6
I meant that each feat is individually a big deal in 5e, and the classes feel more defined, weapons aren't built in to classes, spell lists are much more varied, there's more variety in ways to do things besides "kill things this way instead of that way", and such.
Also, 5e Playtesting started before 13th Age was released
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Post by Neo on Jun 10, 2016 18:36:01 GMT -6
Cheese, Crow, could you two PM me your full character sheets when you get a chance? I can't seem to open those files. Also, Cheese and I found out how to create a 13th Age sheet on Roll20. All I have to do is give you control of a token you want to use, and if you go to edit it in your journal, there's an official 13th Age character sheet attached. So if anyone doesn't want to physically write your sheet out or use the character generator, you can set up a time with me and we can create your character sheet actually in Roll20. I'll also be able to sit down and help you with it if you need help.  |
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Post by Neo on Jun 10, 2016 18:51:13 GMT -6
I meant that each feat is individually a big deal in 5e, and the classes feel more defined, weapons aren't built in to classes, spell lists are much more varied, there's more variety in ways to do things besides "kill things this way instead of that way", and such. Also, 5e Playtesting started before 13th Age was released In one of the campaigns I've seen, there's a guy who plays a Orc whose gimmick is that he throws things- allies and enemies alike. He mainly likes to use tables and chairs for weapons, even though he carries Javelins. Sure, he can kill things in many different ways. But he can also throw the High Elf in the party across the room, and she can teleport even further, so combined, they essentially have infinite movement range. Classes aren't actually locked to anything- something you would know if you actually worked on a character sheet and asked me questions about what you can and can't do. Want your Ranger to use a giant two-handed Greatsword as his primary weapon? Sure. Want your Ranger to carry around a sack full of table legs to throw? Neat. Want your Barbarian to use a Battleaxe in both hands? Convince me he/she is strong enough to dual wield two-handed weapons. And hey, that's where your Backgrounds and Unique come into play! Maybe your Orc Barbarian is specifically trained to dual wield massive axes. Maybe you're playing a character who is a Barbarian according to his background, but he actually uses magic and is very well learned and well spoken. Throw in Skill Checks- which you can do both in and out of combat- and suddenly the possibilities are nearly endless. |
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Post by Neo on Jun 10, 2016 18:52:20 GMT -6
You can't open the .pdf file...? I... How do I attach a file to a PM, anyway? You ninja'd me. I haven't even tried to open the PDF file yet.  |
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Post by Golurkcanfly on Jun 10, 2016 18:56:55 GMT -6
There's a difference between what you can do and what the system encourages and expects.
Sure, I could make a Wizard with 8 INT, but does the system make it viable? Meanwhile, in DnD, you have tons of great out-of-combat abilities, classes that feel different rather than just having different powers, unique subclasses, encouraged homebrew, feats which radically change how a character is played, great rewards for out-of-the-box thinking, extremely varied classes and subclasses. From what I've seen and looked at for the classes, a lot of the classes do the same thing but with slightly different methods.
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Post by Neo on Jun 10, 2016 19:14:32 GMT -6
There's a difference between what you can do and what the system encourages and expects. Sure, I could make a Wizard with 8 INT, but does the system make it viable? Meanwhile, in DnD, you have tons of great out-of-combat abilities, classes that feel different rather than just having different powers, unique subclasses, encouraged homebrew, feats which radically change how a character is played, great rewards for out-of-the-box thinking, extremely varied classes and subclasses. From what I've seen and looked at for the classes, a lot of the classes do the same thing but with slightly different methods. Lurk, sometimes you just flat out depress me. You literally haven't done anything at all with 13th Age- you haven't created a character, you haven't played a single session, you haven't seen anyone else play 13th Age, nothing. All you've done is look at the core classes in the book, and with that, you're saying D&D is infinitely better? That's more than just a little biased. If you don't want to play, don't. No one's forcing you. |
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Post by Golurkcanfly on Jun 10, 2016 19:17:53 GMT -6
Okay, now you're just assuming things.
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Post by Neo on Jun 10, 2016 19:45:08 GMT -6
Sooowry.
I'll try to stop being such a grumpy easily offended dragon.
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Post by Golurkcanfly on Jun 11, 2016 8:28:32 GMT -6
For Talent Feats, do you have to take the lower level feats to get the higher level ones?
Like, if I don't have the Adventurer Feat of Favored Enemy (which allows me to change my favored enemy every rest), can I still take the Champion Feat (adds another +1 to the critical threat range against a favored enemy).
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Post by Golurkcanfly on Jun 11, 2016 9:17:40 GMT -6
Can you better explain how backgrounds work as well?
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Post by Golurkcanfly on Jun 11, 2016 10:30:01 GMT -6
And you can have multiple backgrounds, right?
If we have 8 points, I could have 5 points in Lion Tamer, 2 points in Potter, and 1 point in Chef to gain +5 bonuses to animal handling skills, +2 bonuses to craftsman skills, and +1 to cooking skills, right?
And what icons will be relevant in the story besides the six you've listed, Neo?
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Post by Golurkcanfly on Jun 11, 2016 10:36:32 GMT -6
Also, ability score modifiers are like they are in DnD, right? 12 is +1, 14 is +2, 16 is +4, and so on, right?
Also, I figured out why I didn't really like the system as much as BESM or 5e. It's because it feels like 4e, but a little more free in how combat works, which is a step above 4e though.
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Post by The Big Cheese on Jun 11, 2016 10:47:03 GMT -6
Also, ability score modifiers are like they are in DnD, right? 12 is +1, 14 is +2, 16 is +4, and so on, right? Also, I figured out why I didn't really like the system as much as BESM or 5e. It's because it feels like 4e, but a little more free in how combat works, which is a step above 4e though. It feels most like 5e to me, more emphasis on balance and not being able to do eveything alongside the role playing factor. It's probably even further in the direction 5e went than 5e is. And yep. Just like D&D. |
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Post by Golurkcanfly on Jun 11, 2016 10:50:26 GMT -6
4e was the one with emphasis on balance. 5e focused on congruency in play, ease of play, and the feeling of each class being unique, though there were a few little iffy spits like Sorcerers still being inferior to other classes in every way, having accews to only 15 spells while e very other full caster gets at least 25 minimum, and Paladin can get 20 as a half-caster.
Also, martials are awesome in 5E and play very differently than spellcasters, and spellcasters still have tons of options for spells and customization.
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Post by The Big Cheese on Jun 11, 2016 10:59:36 GMT -6
4e was the one with emphasis on balance. 5e focused on congruency in play, ease of play, and the feeling of each class being unique, though there were a few little iffy spits like Sorcerers still being inferior to other classes in every way, having accews to only 15 spells while e very other full caster gets at least 25 minimum, and Paladin can get 20 as a half-caster. Also, martials are awesome in 5E and play very differently than spellcasters, and spellcasters still have tons of options for spells and customization. 5e had the Bonus system where +6 or summat was the highest you can get in addition to each roll, and likewise here you'll find that you generally have fewer spells, feats and skills to add to your character. It's more like balance between the different tiers of levels than balance between classes. I haven't looked into Martials much since I'm a Cleric, but even Paladin which can sub in Cleric abilities looks well distinguished here. For example, a Paladin has more opportunity to diversify their talents at later levels (up to 5 talents) whereas my Cleric is stuck with 3 domains that give more diverse effects individually like boosting death saves for my nearby allies or letting me roll a trick dice to give to an ally or an enemy for one of their rolls. Ease of play is also a thing here, because combat distance and movement range is more simplified to "distant," "nearby" or "enganged," the existence of the escalation die and combat tricks having one ruleset, among other QoL changes to the D&D/Pathfinder formula. |
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Post by Golurkcanfly on Jun 11, 2016 11:15:53 GMT -6
The bonus system is for Proficiency, which is for skills, spells, and attacks.
It's nothing like escalation in 13th age. Plus, 5E has waaaaaaay more spells than 13th Age (even half casters have spell at least 40 or so spells long) and definitely more than 4e, which does the same thing as 13th Age in giving everyone "Powers" which act like special skills in Video games, while 5e tends to stick with a varied structure in how special attacks are done and makes each class play differently than others, especially with the varied subclasses.
For instance, a Battlemaster Fighter plays very differently than an Eldritch Knight Fighter, and a Transmuter Wizard plays very differently than an Illusionist Wizard. Of course, there are some overlaps (Sorcerer and Evocation Wizards tend to share a lot of ground, Champion Fighter and Barbarian a bit simikar, Bards are the best at pretty much everything, etc), but the feats are individually game changers which bring powerful abilities, such as Shield Master giving a Shove bonus action which can easily turn the tide of battle.
5e I think does the best job of mixing narrative into the gameplay itself, in that every ability seems largely justified, and no abilities seem to have arbitrary limits, in that actions which aren't too spectacular are always at-will, while abilities that require rests are pretty major and don't just seem like a simple "attack again".
5e sacrifices some of its balance for narrative combat, which is right in a party of friends.
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Post by The Big Cheese on Jun 11, 2016 11:51:45 GMT -6
I was comparing Proficiency to the highly limited number of Feats and Spells/Powers. I can see why you'd like 5e's approach better but I don't think this system is very video gamey. The smaller skill list just goes hand in hand with the limited number of abilities you can actually choose from. It keeps things from going like 3.5e where your abilities scale ridiculously and high or even medium level characters in certain classes can do literally everything really well, like Wizards, Bards, Clerics and Druids. You get a decent spread of dedicated combat skills and skills which enhance the role playing here, depending on your build, and the Icons make for better world building while the Backgrounds and One Unique Thing give you a lot of wiggle room to role-play your character. It seems like a way more interesting system than 4e or even Pathfinder in my opinion, at least worth trying before defaulting back to D&D again. If you ever play another table top again it's more likely than not to be D&D, so it's a good opportunity to try other things.
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Post by Golurkcanfly on Jun 11, 2016 11:54:12 GMT -6
Anything is more interesting than 4e, and Pathfinder is very interesting, but it's horrible rulesiness keeps it from being smooth like 5e or 13th Age.
It's also why I prefer BESM to Mutants and Masterminds, because M&M is like Pathfinder on crack when it comes to numbeer crunching and rules interactions.
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Post by SpringForest on Jun 11, 2016 11:58:02 GMT -6
Anything is more interesting than 4e, and Pathfinder is very interesting, but it's horrible rulesiness keeps it from being smooth like 5e or 13th Age. It's also why I prefer BESM to Mutants and Masterminds, because M&M is like Pathfinder on crack when it comes to numbeer crunching and rules interactions. That acronym makes me imagine a bunch of different candies fighting dragons and giant monsters. |
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Post by Neo on Jun 11, 2016 12:42:08 GMT -6
*groans of increasing discomfort*
I just woke up. Who needs help with what now?
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