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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2015 11:16:50 GMT -6
I agree partially, but not on the "Lol weapons are dumb" part. I see no reason for it to take a century for laguz to learn something like using basic weapons. Maybe writing it down and developing styles, but otherwise not really. If that was so for it taking centuries to learn how to wield a basic weapon, why haven't they long been defeated? That makes zero sense right there. There's no reason to handicap them further. Yes, they have greater physical strength than beorc, but that has never stopped humans killing vampires in fantasy by being well-prepared.
I'd direct you to Seraph of the End, which is a similar situation we find ourselves in for this RP.
Now, the way I see it, you can take the adaptive and creative part of beorc, and say that laguz feel more comfortable and better using the natural weapons they were born with--their animal forms. Maybe they feel like they are too close to beorc if they use weapons, they fear using the weapons because they're insecure, and thus keep to their animal forms. Not only that, but maybe it gives them a sense of pride and self-superiority over the beorcs?
A million explanations. You really can't go wrong here except for the centuries thing.
Now, for the brain. I imagine that laguz aren't dumb, but it takes them a while to grasp things because their culture is less about change, and more about tradition.
Compare a grandparent of this generation to their grandchild. Well, some grandparents. Some can't operate the new phones because they've never had one, or they've always had a basic one.
For beorc, like humans IRL, we adapt and change to fit. This is the driving point for beorc, and what makes them outshine the laguz---their wit and adaptation. Laguz are stronger, beorc are craftier.
I'd say laguz should just be smart, but not adaptive. Prideful. Stubborn. Superior for most of them. This should lead to a mindset that makes them overlook small things while not appearing dumb.
If we dumb them down too much, it makes victory for the rebels too easy, and pretty pointless in the long run.
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Post by Golurkcanfly on Aug 23, 2015 11:18:16 GMT -6
No, Neo, I'm responding to your hostile comment towards my statement that was meant to provide a counterpoint.
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Post by Golurkcanfly on Aug 23, 2015 11:20:38 GMT -6
I agree partially, but not on the "Lol weapons are dumb" part. I see no reason for it to take a century for laguz to learn something like using basic weapons. Maybe writing it down and developing styles, but otherwise not really. If that was so for it taking centuries to learn how to wield a basic weapon, why haven't they long been defeated? That makes zero sense right there. There's no reason to handicap them further. Yes, they have greater physical strength than beorc, but that has never stopped humans killing vampires in fantasy by being well-prepared. I'd direct you to Seraph of the End, which is a similar situation we find ourselves in for this RP. Now, the way I see it, you can take the adoptive and creative part of beorc, and say that laguz feel more comfortable and better using the natural weapons they were born with--their animal forms. Maybe they feel like they are too close to beorc if they use weapons, they fear using the weapons because they're insecure, and thus keep to their animal forms. Not only that, but maybe it gives them a sense of pride and self-superiority over the beorcs? A million explanations. You really can't go wrong here except for the centuries thing. Now, for the brain. I imagine that laguz aren't dumb, but it takes them a while to grasp things because their culture is less about change, and more about tradition. Compare a grandparent of this generation to their grandchild. Well, some grandparents. Some can't operate the new phones because they've never had one, or they've always had a basic one. For beorc, like humans IRL, we adapt and change to fit. This is the driving point for beorc, and what makes them outshine the laguz---their wit and adaptation. Laguz are stronger, beorc are craftier. I'd say laguz should just be smart, but not adaptive. Prideful. Stubborn. Superior for most of them. This should lead to a mindset that makes them overlook small things while not appearing dumb. If we dumb them down too much, it makes victory for the rebels too easy, and pretty pointless in the long run. Are you forgetting the part where Laguz can transform into giant animals that could easily maul someone? Humans were literally designed to be able to be adaptable. Weapon usage is part of that. Again, the quote: "The youngest son, ambitious Selsen, wished to create a creature to surpass all his siblings' creations. He created the beorc, creative and adaptive. The newborn beorc named their country in his honor. His task complete, Terik became a star and traveled to the sky to watch over his creation." From a lore perspective: Humans are more adaptable and creative than Laguz, allowing them to easily adjust to and learn how to use weapons and magic. From a balance perspective: The reason why humans, despite having better skill with weaponry and magic in proportion to time spent training, haven't taken over already is because Humans have a far shorter lifespan and can't transform into gigantic creatures in addition to being weaker physically. |
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Post by Neo on Aug 23, 2015 11:26:03 GMT -6
Golurk, you're blatantly ignoring the fact that there are already Laguz in this RP who can use weapons in human form. And not just Halcyon.
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Post by Neo on Aug 23, 2015 11:28:51 GMT -6
No, Neo, I'm responding to your hostile comment towards my statement that was meant to provide a counterpoint. There was literally no need to provide a counterpoint. All you've done is start yet another argument. Congratulations. ... You guys can sort this all out. I'm done. |
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Post by Golurkcanfly on Aug 23, 2015 11:29:13 GMT -6
I'm not saying that Laguz can't use weapons. I'm saying that they wouldn't be nearly as proficient as humans with them.
It's the difference between fast learners and slow learners in school. For some people, they understand new concepts and ideas very quickly, while other people might take far longer or never understand the concept.
Humans are the fast learners. Laguz are the slow learners.
EDIT: Neo, am I not allowed to disagree with someone, especially when I'm providing fair reason?
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Post by GX1997 on Aug 23, 2015 11:31:56 GMT -6
*glares*
*prepares to storm out of topic*
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Post by Neo on Aug 23, 2015 11:38:28 GMT -6
I'm not saying that Laguz can't use weapons. I'm saying that they wouldn't be nearly as proficient as humans with them. It's the difference between fast learners and slow learners in school. For some people, they understand new concepts and ideas very quickly, while other people might take far longer or never understand the concept. Humans are the fast learners. Laguz are the slow learners. EDIT: Neo, am I not allowed to disagree with someone, especially when I'm providing fair reason? How old is Hal? How old is Caderyn? And how old is Rena? Just go back and actually read my posts, for once in your life. I even said I was contemplating changing Rena's age. .... But honestly, I don't even care at this point. It's not even worth it. I'll just do what I originally planned and only have her personality change. Edit: You're also ignoring, or missing, the individuality of a Laguz. Is a 30 year old bandit going to be a better swordsman than ALL Laguz, solely because he's human? No. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2015 11:41:22 GMT -6
Golurk, I feel like you skimmed my post. What you just stated about laguz being physically stronger and transforming was literally stated in that post at the minimum of two times.
EDIT: You did, really. Everything you just stated was in that post and provided with reasonable reasons and counterpoints. I addressed creativity and adaptiveness no less than twice with examples.
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Post by Neo on Aug 23, 2015 11:42:38 GMT -6
Now, can we please drop this? Please? There's literally no point to it and I really want to hunt with you and GX today.
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Post by Golurkcanfly on Aug 23, 2015 11:52:39 GMT -6
I'm going to end this here. First of all, Neo, you're making way too many assumptions about my statements. I never once said that Laguz couldn't use magic or weaponry. I also never said that a 30-year-old bandit would be better than a 300-year-old laguz with a sword if the laguz has trained most of his life. I was supporting GX's statement about how they made the (superior to most Laguz) weapon usage a special thing for black-winged herons. You're being grumpy and sour and getting way too defensive regarding a statement that wasn't even referring to yours.
And Fennie, I did not skim your post. Your justifications weren't terribly valid. You want to know how most humans beat vampires in fiction? It's either because of poor writing or humans teaming up with specially crafted gear against a smaller fighting force. You said "You see no reason that Laguz would take longer to learn how to use weapons" without providing any reasonable justification. You tried balance reasons, but then that overpowers Laguz. Laguz aren't just humans that can transform. They have both a different mindset and different capacity for learning. That extends to the use of weapons and magic. Simply, your conclusions from your statements were insufficient, especially with the "rebel easy victory". Sure, the humans could better use weapons, but how much does it help your average human when there are Laguz who can transform into gigantic dragons? Not much, unless you're someone like Ike. With your reasoning, there is little reason why humans would even exist as they do, if Laguz can do everything they can in addition to higher physical strength and transformation capabilities.
TL;DR
Neo, you're being defensive and hostile because you're grumpy.
Fennie, your conclusions need to be better thought out.
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Post by HHDeception on Aug 23, 2015 11:52:30 GMT -6
My philosophy on this: Never mistake preference for weakness
IMO laguz don't use weapons and magic for the same reason Jedi and Sith don't use guns. They don't like them and they don't need them.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2015 11:59:24 GMT -6
I give up. Everyone simply have their characters believe in what they want, and call it different opinions in-story.
I, for one, know for a fact that Judah isn't going to be an idiot, and I'll go with what I've decided: tradition has stagnated laguz culture and has stopped them from pursuing intellectual things. Even if they did, it won't make them creative or adaptable. These are literally animals given humanoid form. Assign attributes of a real life animal to them.
Crow? Smart.
Lion? Physically stronger and traditionally has a militant personality that befits a ruler.
Bat(We need one. Badly)? Has better hearing than other laguz. May be a blind tribe of laguz.
Etcetera.
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Post by Golurkcanfly on Aug 23, 2015 12:02:12 GMT -6
I give up. Everyone simply have their characters believe in what they want, and call it different opinions in-story. I, for one, know for a fact that Judah isn't going to be an idiot, and I'll go with what I've decided: tradition has stagnated laguz culture and has stopped them from pursuing intellectual things. Even if they did, it won't make them creative or adaptable. These are literally animals given humanoid form. Assign attributes of a real life animal to them. Crow? Smart. Lion? Physically stronger and traditionally has a militant personality that befits a ruler. Bat(We need one. Badly)? Has better hearing than other laguz. May be a blind tribe of laguz. Etcetera. Less adaptable =/= Less smart Someone can be smart and learn things slowly. |
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Post by Golurkcanfly on Aug 23, 2015 12:03:08 GMT -6
My philosophy on this: Never mistake preference for weakness IMO laguz don't use weapons and magic for the same reason Jedi and Sith don't use guns. They don't like them and they don't need them. Though that's not the canon, at all. Again: "The youngest son, ambitious Selsen, wished to create a creature to surpass all his siblings' creations. He created the beorc, creative and adaptive. The newborn beorc named their country in his honor. His task complete, Terik became a star and traveled to the sky to watch over his creation." And if it's not true, then what's the point of humans anyways since Laguz would be superior in literally every way? |
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Post by SummerCrow on Aug 23, 2015 12:04:33 GMT -6
My philosophy on this: Never mistake preference for weakness IMO laguz don't use weapons and magic for the same reason Jedi and Sith don't use guns. They don't like them and they don't need them. But, as Obi-Wan taught Grevious, they totally can use them. What're we talking about? |
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Post by SummerCrow on Aug 23, 2015 12:05:58 GMT -6
(Has a 5 minute break)
(Looks at what's happened)
I ain't got the time not patience.
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Post by Golurkcanfly on Aug 23, 2015 12:06:13 GMT -6
My philosophy on this: Never mistake preference for weakness IMO laguz don't use weapons and magic for the same reason Jedi and Sith don't use guns. They don't like them and they don't need them. But, as Obi-Wan taught Grevious, they totally can use them. What're we talking about? How people are arguing against the established canon. |
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Post by HHDeception on Aug 23, 2015 12:07:14 GMT -6
My philosophy on this: Never mistake preference for weakness IMO laguz don't use weapons and magic for the same reason Jedi and Sith don't use guns. They don't like them and they don't need them. But, as Obi-Wan taught Grevious, they totally can use them. What're we talking about? Exactly~ We're talking about why 40 year olds can use sticks and books better than 300 year olds. |
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Post by Golurkcanfly on Aug 23, 2015 12:08:40 GMT -6
But, as Obi-Wan taught Grevious, they totally can use them. What're we talking about? Exactly~ We're talking about why 40 year olds can use sticks and books better than 300 year olds. Because the 300 year olds have different biology and adaptability. Turtles live longer than humans, but can and do they devise weaponry and use it effectively? EDIT: Alternatively, think about it this way if you don't understand that humans and Laguz are completely different creatures: Some people, due to natural proclivity, will be better at soccer after playing for 1 year than someone who has played for 10 years. |
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