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Post by SpringForest on Feb 17, 2017 19:39:44 GMT -6
Session tonight. Kitty is here to join us.
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Post by SummerCrow on Feb 17, 2017 20:04:00 GMT -6
Who is Kitty?
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Post by GX1997 on Feb 17, 2017 23:27:44 GMT -6
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Post by Neo on Feb 17, 2017 23:32:33 GMT -6
GX put into words what I tried to but couldn't. This is a copy of the texts she sent me:
Georgia: "He shouldn't beat himself up over it. Both characters were looking to do something but couldn't, and they wanted completely different things. Both characters were already ticked, so that means conflict. But both of you as players got swept up in it, causing you both to be frustrated. From there things spiraled. You both need to work on keeping the player and the PC separate a little more."
You didn't ruin the session. You aren't the only one at fault for tonight, and you aren't the only one who's been causing problems for the past few sessions. I am too, and I'm really sorry. The absolute last thing I want is to upset or hurt anyone. I'm enjoying Rifts so much, and I know I'm not the only one. I want everyone to be able to relax and have fun with session. I promise you, things will get better. I promise. We'll learn to listen to each other more, be more patient with each other, and work better together. Because we're friends. So please don't drop out, okay? It would make me so, so sad. Let's just learn from everything and get better. Okay?
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Post by SummerCrow on Feb 18, 2017 0:28:54 GMT -6
Both characters were looking to do something but couldn't, and they wanted completely different things. No. More than that, I was bad because I got ignored about doing it twice, then someone went and did exactly the thing I'd said I wanted to do and had been waiting on permission to... well, do. Again. I was fine with sitting and waiting through Shira's tantrum. Celica being pissed at Shira? That was in-character. I wasn't frustrated at that point - well, a bit, but not to any big degree. Remember that Celica's a mercenary who gets hired to protect people from the supernatural. And before that, no one knows yet, she was a military cadet for the same reason. Europe literally has a gargoyle army that wants to kill or enslave all humans. And, especially on the heels of Celica talking to Shira about how she doesn't realize how strong she is or how Celica doesn't trust her to keep her strength in check...? Just... know Celica's not going to forgive Shira for quite some time for that sudden, unprovoked outburst. It's not something that'll be fixed by just asking for her help with something or rescuing her from a spider. It just... feels like Celica doesn't contribute anything helpful. At all. She's missed every real combat since the first one. Everything else has been her causing her own problems. And the only thing she can do besides fight is machines. Which... like I was talking with Neo about. He was worried he'd been too... active? during the Fire Mark thing. And I was assuring him that... maybe? But he should have been. Because all the characters have things they can do and can't do. And with the marks, it should be pretty clear who's going to be most helpful for each mark. I've already mentioned concerns about whether Celica will be able to do anything helpful at all when we go to low-tech worlds. I guess... God, it actually sounds really selfish when I put it this way, but I was expecting this to be her chance to shine. Not just make and fix her own problems for once. Dammit. Now I feel even worse about this. Like... I legitimately feel like an absolute jackass over this. Like a spoiled brat. I'm sorry. I completely ruined this. |
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Post by SummerCrow on Feb 18, 2017 0:33:16 GMT -6
That was stupid. Absolutely stupid. Going into an RP with any type of expectation is stupid, because it's about interacting with other people. And if I'm going to expect things of them - that... phrasing sounds hyper-critical, but it's not - that defeats the point. It's just stupid and wrong and I need to stop doing that, because it keeps causing problems. At least I learned from this where I'm wrong and what I need to do to fix it.
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Post by SummerCrow on Feb 18, 2017 0:43:28 GMT -6
Right, session summary...
Artemis let us into Dinomechanis. They had advanced illusion tech.
They fixed Joel. There's a ton of other not-Joels, but none of them are annoying.
The leader (Mech) kept ignoring Shira. Shira did not appreciate this.
Don made a speech about ignoring problems and not doing anything about them. Mech did not appreciate this.
Mech thinks he should be able to put his own people's priorities above saving the world with the help of some extinct dragons or whatever.
Eventually Amelia and Shira decided to resolve this with violence.
Celica did not appreciate Shira's bullying and jumped to Mech's defense. They're in a cold war now.
Amelia seemed to decide Mech had a soul or something, I dunno, and chose to cooperate with him instead of killing him.
Something about reviving people with other people's memories intact and a weird cloning machine...
Honestly I had a hard time following it, so someone else may want to summarize that.
More information about Mech and co. in the basement. Also dinosaurs.
Everyone was really demoralized at that point because I'm a ****ing asshole so not much happened.
Didn't even ask Mech what his endgame was or get specific conditions for him to hand over his mark.
There's a weird barrier that shocks people.
Celica fell in a hole.
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Post by Neo on Feb 18, 2017 3:01:12 GMT -6
I'm too tired to even begin to disect all of this...
In Shira's defense, Mech wasn't simply ignoring her. Shira didn't just decide to throw a tantrum for no reason. Remember that she recently bonded with Xar- and for a dragon, that's a big deal. When dragons connect with others on that level, it becomes an instinctual thing. Shira took his death really, really hard. And to make matters worse, she feels absolutely terrible about deceiving him and Squall. It took Amy calming her down off screen to get Shira to the point where she didn't have a complete breakdown. And then both Artemis and Mech completely and totally dismiss her, don't even try to believe her, don't even give her a chance, and even worse, Artemis flat out accuses Shira of murdering Xar. With absolutely zero basis or room to stand on. Keep in mind Shira doesn't have the best emotional fortitude currently. She IS only a year and a bit old, after all. So by the time the party got to the lab, Shira was already on edge, she was just hiding it. And that's another thing you need to remember. Shira isn't just any dragon, she's a Royal Frilled Dragon. They're masters of deception and manipulation, and cunning socializers simply by instinct. That's the entire MO of Royal Frilled Dragons, and why they're so feared. Shira can hide her true thoughts and feelings better than a trained CIA agent when she really wants to. If Shira put her mind to it, even Amy would find it really, really difficult to read her. And Amy's literally trained in doing just that.
Anyway, Shira was already on edge. And then just like Artemis, Mech completely dismissed her. Didn't even give her a chance. I, as the player, actually thought that was Mystic's way of telling me to back off and give Celica a chance to shine, that's how badly he dismissed her. But I thought playing Shira in-character and showing she actually has a serious side would be a good thing. I apparently butchered that and made it seem like a mere tantrum. Mech also questioned how Shira got the Fire Mark and implied she killed Xar, and then made a mockery of her when she tried to convince him she was trying to help save the world. He actually flat out mocked her. And then, finally, Mech crossed the line and called Shira a "fake" dragon. With Rifts Megaverse dragons, that's the one taboo you don't break, the one line you don't cross, the one thing you never say. It's the equivalent offense to attacking a mother's eggs. It will get you flat out eaten in almost all cases, and then the dragon is likely to torment your entire family for generations. I'm talking thousands of years. Dragons take this so seriously. If Mecha had dared to say that to a more powerful dragon? He'd be a smoking spot on the wall. All things considered, Shira controlled herself remarkably well.
I think a lot of the friction between Shira and Celica comes from Celica knowing absolutely nothing about dragons... But thinking she knows everything about them because "all supernatural creatures are the same". Which is flat out wrong. Celica has a lot of false beliefs and impressions about dragons. Dragons are generally beneficial and helpful to humanity. The number of dragons that become "evil" dragons is very, very low. Like... On Rifts Earth, there's only a handful of them period.
Crow, please don't beat yourself up over everything. Please.
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Post by Neo on Feb 18, 2017 3:43:22 GMT -6
Another thing... Mystic, Lurk rolled a Crit 1. In Rifts, Critical 1s are really, really powerful. They don't just give slight bonuses or extra effects like crits in 13th Age do. They have drastic effects that can potentially change an entire questline. And... It feels like Lurk's crit had absolutely zero effect. At the very least, it had no noticeable effect. And that kinda... As a player, that's a little demoralizing. It also seems a little unfair, since Shira's crit in Dravania essentially secured them the Fire Mark, a magic sword, and an Airship.
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Post by Neo on Feb 18, 2017 6:32:22 GMT -6
I can't get back to sleep. And there's something I need to say. Crow, it's only natural you'd want your character to shine. There's nothing wrong with that. Celica has gotten the short end of the stick a lot, and it's really no one's fault, it's just how things have played out. But she will have her time in the Sun, and there will be plenty of battles she'll be extremely helpful in throughout the campaign. You don't need to worry about that. And you certainly don't need to beat yourself up so much over it. So just try to get some rest today. No one's mad at you except you. We all understand. *hugs*
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Post by SpringForest on Feb 18, 2017 9:24:01 GMT -6
Another thing... Mystic, Lurk rolled a Crit 1. In Rifts, Critical 1s are really, really powerful. They don't just give slight bonuses or extra effects like crits in 13th Age do. They have drastic effects that can potentially change an entire questline. And... It feels like Lurk's crit had absolutely zero effect. At the very least, it had no noticeable effect. And that kinda... As a player, that's a little demoralizing. It also seems a little unfair, since Shira's crit in Dravania essentially secured them the Fire Mark, a magic sword, and an Airship. Those situations were very different though. That roll kept you from having to fight Mech and getting kicked out of the entire place. It also doesn't help that in character, that speech would never be handled as a "Oh, okay. You insulted me, so lets just be friends now." There were multiple times I considered having him fight/kick you out, but didn't because Don's roll. It was more of you and the roll working against each other, creating a weird cancellation. So that's why it seemed like nothing. In Dravania, Car liked you, you spoke with him first, there was no animosity between you, and it was all generally headed in the same direction of being friends. You can't provoke a fight and expect everything to just go butterflies and rainbows because of a roll. There are some things that just don't make sense like that. |
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Post by SummerCrow on Feb 18, 2017 12:26:39 GMT -6
Neo, you can say dragons/the supernatural/Shira aren't evil until you're blue in the face, but remember that people in Germany are raised to hate them just as much as Coalition States people are. The only reason Celica's as fine with Shira (and Slimey) as she is is... well, character spoilers. And she missed all that stuff with Xar. And she's about as oblivious as brick in the first place. If you want Celica to understand why Shira's upset, Shira's going to have to tell Celica why she's upset.
And keep reminding yourself that Celica has an evil alignment. Yeah, it's the "well-intentioned extremist" alignment, but she's still technically evil.
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Post by Neo on Feb 18, 2017 13:11:05 GMT -6
Another thing... Mystic, Lurk rolled a Crit 1. In Rifts, Critical 1s are really, really powerful. They don't just give slight bonuses or extra effects like crits in 13th Age do. They have drastic effects that can potentially change an entire questline. And... It feels like Lurk's crit had absolutely zero effect. At the very least, it had no noticeable effect. And that kinda... As a player, that's a little demoralizing. It also seems a little unfair, since Shira's crit in Dravania essentially secured them the Fire Mark, a magic sword, and an Airship. Those situations were very different though. That roll kept you from having to fight Mech and getting kicked out of the entire place. It also doesn't help that in character, that speech would never be handled as a "Oh, okay. You insulted me, so lets just be friends now." There were multiple times I considered having him fight/kick you out, but didn't because Don's roll. It was more of you and the roll working against each other, creating a weird cancellation. So that's why it seemed like nothing. In Dravania, Car liked you, you spoke with him first, there was no animosity between you, and it was all generally headed in the same direction of being friends. You can't provoke a fight and expect everything to just go butterflies and rainbows because of a roll. There are some things that just don't make sense like that. Oh okay. I wasn't expecting the roll to make everything butterflies and rainbows, but I wasn't sure what it actually did and that's where my thoughts came from. Now that I know what it actually did, and heard your reasoning behind it, I'm perfectly fine with it. In the future Mystic, when something like that happens again, and there's a gray area crit with no obvious effect, just tell your players so they don't misunderstand okay? There's no reason to keep crit effects hidden from your players in Rifts. And just know I'm not upset about it or anything. *hugs* |
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Post by Neo on Feb 18, 2017 13:13:52 GMT -6
Neo, you can say dragons/the supernatural/Shira aren't evil until you're blue in the face, but remember that people in Germany are raised to hate them just as much as Coalition States people are. The only reason Celica's as fine with Shira (and Slimey) as she is is... well, character spoilers. And she missed all that stuff with Xar. And she's about as oblivious as brick in the first place. If you want Celica to understand why Shira's upset, Shira's going to have to tell Celica why she's upset. And keep reminding yourself that Celica has an evil alignment. Yeah, it's the "well-intentioned extremist" alignment, but she's still technically evil. It's probably going to have to be something Amy explains, or something that happens later when Shira is an Adult Dragon. Right now, she doesn't understand why Celica is always mad at her, she just thinks Celica hates her. |
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Post by SummerCrow on Feb 18, 2017 13:21:34 GMT -6
Celica explicitly said wrote that she doesn't hate Shira, though.
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Post by SummerCrow on Feb 19, 2017 12:54:30 GMT -6
I'm going to beat Neo to the punch this time! Experience?
I'm guessing "not much" or "none" considering the entirety of session amounted to
Decide to not just kill the guy
Decide to help the guy
Decide to kill the guy after all
Decide to not just kill the guy after all
Decide to help the guy after all
(Jurassic Park theme starts and fade to black)
(...Man, that cliffhanger would have sucked if it had been Don, Slimey, or Alice)
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Post by SpringForest on Feb 19, 2017 12:55:49 GMT -6
Oh...right. Later.
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Post by Malefio on Feb 20, 2017 6:47:55 GMT -6
Just for RP purposes, where was Slimex during the last session?
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Post by SpringForest on Feb 20, 2017 9:56:55 GMT -6
Its mostly up to you. We can say that he wanted to rest, maybe he got sick, weasel wanted him for something, maybe he got a really bad headache, we could work out Slimex being knocked out by some sort of telepathic demon wave if you want, etc. Its mostly up to you. Maybe he also really hates dinosaurs.
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Post by Malefio on Feb 20, 2017 11:04:59 GMT -6
Let's have him sleep, simpler that way.
My question was ignored though, I wanted to know WHERE he is, not what he's doing.
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